In this interview, host Sarah Curnoles spoke with empowerment coach Morgan Barkus about navigating sexuality and self-confidence after a breakup. Barkus shared her personal and professional journey, which informed her coaching style. The conversation centered on deconstructing the societal shame women often feel about sex, emphasizing the importance of understanding and prioritizing one's own desires. Barkus provided a three-step framework for reclaiming personal power: cleaning up negative self-talk, auditing media consumption, and moving one's body in a powerful way. She advocated for self-pleasure as a tool for empowerment and self-discovery and offered practical advice for women to feel sexy and confident while single, concluding with a pep talk on focusing on oneself to attract the right partner.
Get Morgan's free Feel Sexy on 4 Steps Guide here: https://www.morganbarkus.com/feel-sexy-now
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Have you gone through a breakup and you're tired of feeling low, lonely, or lost? I've got a pep talk through you. I'm Sarah Kernows, your breakup bestie. I'm a certified life coach with years of coaching experience, helping people just like you turn your breakup into the best thing that ever happened to them. Each week, tune in to get a pep talk to heal your heart, let go of the past, reclaim your power, and get back into your main character energy. Your breakup may have shattered your world as you know it, but together, let's build a new better world. Let's go.
(00:43)
Hello, my friend, Sarah Kronos here. You are in for such a treat today because I am bringing on my new friend, Morgan Barcus, who is such a bright light and a breath of fresh air. The way that she talks about sex and sexuality is just so refreshing. And I really wanted to bring her on for this conversation because I know that this is one of those hidden, secret, I don't know, almost dirty things, right? I don't know why it's still dirty now, but we don't talk about it. We don't talk about how much we miss sex and touch after a breakup. And I think for some of us, it drives us to do some things that are maybe not healthy and maybe we need to find other ways, other outlets. And this conversation goes there. It is permission given, giving so that you have full permission to tap into your inner wisdom, not just like your urges, right?
(01:56)
But we go deeper into our inner wisdom of what's the wisdom here? What do I need to gain? What do I need? Period. What do I need? Right? So before we get into the conversation, let me tell you a little bit about Morgan. Morgan Barkus is an empowerment coach who helps women love how they look. No diets, no fillers, no fixes. She talks too loud, loves fashion, was born in the year of the monkey and her coaching style is equal part's best girlfriend, unfiltered real talk, and empathetic therapist. I think that you will love this conversation. I can't wait to hear your thoughts. All right. Welcome, Morgan. I am so happy to have you here. Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Thank you. It's been wonderful to engage with you virtually, maybe. I know.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
We have been talking about doing a little happy hour at some point. That's fun.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I know. I love that. And also, we're two single women. I love that we're finding a friendship in this way and we're able to talk about so much and our conversations, we'll see where it goes today. It might go just about anywhere, so we'll see.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
With me, that is possible.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Exactly. Let me start with, I always love to hear, how did you get into this kind of coaching?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It is a windy, windy road, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Tell
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Me. So I will say it all, like I said, it's a windy road and it all ties together somehow. I even, back when I was younger and trying to figure out my life and people would say, "Trust the process." And I'd be like, "You know what? Fuck you in your process. I just want answers. I need a crystal ball." I just kind of wanted to know because I am a type A person. I like an agenda. I like to know where I'm going and life does not work that way. So anyway, I'll go all the way back to even when I was a kiddo. I was a very curious kiddo, which is probably why I ended up getting my undergraduate and psych and then went on to get my master's in marriage and family therapy. I just loved watching people behave, especially couples. And my mom said, she's like, "You were asking about sex as soon as you could talk." I had to try to find age appropriate books and you had all these questions and then you had more questions and I had to try to figure out how to answer your questions.
(04:19)
And I grew up in a very sex positive body, positive household. So I grew up with a couple hippies from Wisconsin. They were very liberal and very open and they loved each other. And it was just like, I don't know, I guess sex and relationships and bodies were always just like a natural thing about being a human. And I guess maybe that environment made it easy for me to be able to ask questions. And like I said, then I went on to go to undergraduate to get my psych degree. I got my master's in marriage and family therapy. And then how old was I? Right before I got back into graduate school, I started teaching dance and fitness at an exotic dance and fitness studio for the everyday woman. And I found it for myself first because I had dated a guy that was like, "Hey, maybe give me a lap dance." And I was like, "I don't know how to do that.
(05:16)
" I was like this naive girl from Wisconsin, but prior to internet, I didn't know anything about anything. So anyway, and then I found this studio where I learned how to give lap dances and I was so good, she ended up asking me to teach. And so I ended up teaching. And then when I wanted to go to graduate school full-time, I was like, "How am I going to pay for school and go to school full-time?" And I was like, "Hmm, maybe I could dance." So then I got into being an entertainer and so could work weekends, go to school full-time during the week. And where this all ties in is when I ended up getting my master's of marriage and family therapy, I practiced as a therapist under supervision for a year. And I thought, I don't want to do this for the rest of my life.
(06:02)
Because I was in outpatient clinic where you're encouraged to get 40 odd clients on your books and it could be any walk of life. And that's a wonderful resource for some people and some people, many people are wonderful therapists. It wasn't right for me. I wanted to work with a very specific clientele. I wanted to work with women. My two favorite clients were women that were exiting difficult relationships. One was still in one. One had literally escaped with her life out of a relationship, moved across country and started her life over. And these were women I was helping get their confidence back, empower them and to really find their voice again, find what they wanted to do in their life on their own. And then they ended up both finding partners, better partners later on. And so it was like when I moved to Miami ... Oh, that's what I left therapy after a year because I thought, "I don't want to do this forever." And I thought, I want to open up my own business.
(07:02)
I want to coach women. I wanted to coach a very specific kind of woman. And so I opened my coaching business back in 2013, got my website, morganmarkus.com, and didn't know really what I was doing until more recently when I hired a business coach to help me design an online program and all that. And I always knew that I wanted to help women be confident. And my experience as an entertainer, my experience as a dance and fitness instructor and the wonderful plethora of women that would come through ages, careers, body shapes, experience, it was awesome. And I thought, wow, tying in movement and confidence and sexiness, but also a strong background in therapy and learning how to ask good questions and develop someone's processes and thought processes. And so it all ended up tying together. And it just my comfort level with bodies and sexuality.
(07:58)
And it all ended up coming together into my coaching program.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Oh my God, I love it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
So I want to go into, you talk about how women are programmed to be ashamed of sex and ashamed of their sexuality and like this very natural urge. Where does that conditioning come from or where does it start?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Well, multiple things. I mean, one, I am not a religious person and I am actually grateful for that because there is a lot of shame when it comes to different religious followings. I mean, I'm not a well studied person and from a high level, it's usually being women being submissive and/or not expressing their sexuality. And then there's just society in general. So I think there's some religious stuff. Then there's also society. A lot of things, especially in this country, I feel like they're sexualized and we use sex to sell and yet women are not supposed to be sexy. It's like, what? So you're selling us all this sexy stuff, but we don't want to be too sexy because then we're too slutty. So I just feel like there's this cognitive dissonance like, "Okay, so I am supposed to be sexy, but I'm not supposed to be too sexy." There's just a lot of confusion in that, I think.
(09:17)
And then you also tie in any kind of sexual trauma. So if someone was oversexualized as a child, they were abused, they were raped, so there's shame around that. So now I'm not even safe in my own body. So I think there are multiple things that contribute to that.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah. And then we can add in the layer of somebody who's gone through a breakup, right? So now they're single. And so I think what gets added on top of that is sort of this shame of like, how do I manage my sexuality as a single person and what's acceptable? And what I hear a lot is that women just want to feel quote unquote chosen, right? Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. But then they equate that with like, "If I haven't been chosen, I'm not desirable or I'm not
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Sexy." Oh yeah, that would be hard to carry around. I mean, I'm 45. I've been single most of my adult life and I've also been very sexually active. I mean, I was just thinking about somebody today, he messaged me. He's a friend of mine and occasionally we rendezvous. And so we roll around in the sheets together. And it was funny because months ago when I saw him like six months ago or something, he was visiting the Chicago area and we got together and he was here for work. So I stayed in the hotel that he was staying at. And out of curiosity, I was like, "Hey, so have you had sex with anybody since the last time we saw each other?" He's like, "No, how about you? " And I'm like, "Well, I've been busy, but yes, if I want to, I do. " And it's older, younger, my age, it's just I don't have any rules.
(11:04)
So I think that one of the things I would assess with someone is, what do you want? If no one else's opinions mattered, because I personally don't care what anybody thinks of me. I really don't. I never have, I don't. And now that I'm even older, I mean, Samantha Jones, she is my spirit animal because she didn't care what other people thought and because who says the rules? So the rules are either set up by what you think your family or friends might think or what a future partner might think. Again, what your religious beliefs might think. So you have all these rules, but I'd be like, "Okay, all of that aside, what do you want? What would feel really good for you? " And some people don't. They can't have sex without an emotional connection. Awesome. Some people, they wish they could and they wish they could be more open and have more experiences and they don't know how to go about that.
(12:04)
Okay, then let's talk about that. So I think first of it is break down what do you want? Not what you think you're supposed to do, what you think someone else might think you're supposed to do. The rules that have been pushed on you all these years, I would really want to dive into what do you want? What feels good to you and what would feel right? And then if they don't know, let's do some exploring safely. So if you're going to do partner sex.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah. Yeah. And that feels so centering the individual instead of thinking of desire is created from outside of me. If I'm
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Chosen,
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Then I'm desirable. Well, you don't have any control over that. You have control over what do I want? What
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Is
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Good to me? That is
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Very
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Me centered as opposed to I'm not desirable unless I'm chosen.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah. And I was grateful to have last year heard Catherine Woodward Thomas's work came up a couple times, calling in the one and that was good for me. And she really talked about like, what are you willing to give up and who would you need to be or who would you become if you wanted to call in a partner? And I think, okay, so if a woman doesn't feel desirable unless someone else is choosing her, like you said, she's looking for that outside validation that she is desirable. Well, if you want someone to desire you, you have to desire you first.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah. And so this is where I want to go into this.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah. So dive in. What are questions you got
Speaker 1 (13:40):
For me? So it's really normal after a breakup to miss being touched. Oh,
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I know.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I get that. I miss that connection. I miss the cuddling. I miss the sex. How do we pivot in a healthy way of like, so we're not going to text our ex, we're not going to have the breakup sex. How do I respond to this craving, right? I have a sexual urge. How do I respond to it instead of turning to my ex?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Stay away from the ex. Yes. This is where you have to decide where your comfort level is. So again, I personally, depending on where I'm at in my life and what I feel like, if I'm trying to call in the one, then I'm probably not going to sleep with a bunch of random emotionally unavailable men or unavailable, like they're married or they're in a relationship. Believe me, men are, they're more than willing to go outside of the relationship and have sex. So you have to decide that for yourself. Again, what do you want? And if you want to have casual sex, good on you. Again, do it safely and make sure that you know what to, for your own boundaries. So if you're going into it, do you want to have emotionally unattached sex? Awesome. There are many men that don't want anything more than a good time.
(15:02)
And if that's what you want too, cool. You just have to know what would hurt you and kind of test that out a little bit. So for instance, in my life, I remember one time I was at a work conference and I met this Italian guy and he was so charismatic. And as soon as I met him, I thought, "Well, we're going to sleep together." And we did. And it was great. And at the same time after the fact, he tried to see me again and I was like, that's not what I ... Because if I wanted emotional stuff, then my feelings would get hurt. I don't want anything more than the good time we had that one time because now if we're actually going to start dating, you're not available for that. So that's not safe for me and I don't want to do that.
(15:44)
So again, you have to know what you want and then maybe it's only solo sex. So then it starts there because I think that's a good place is to get back in touch with yourself because just because you're not having sex with another person doesn't mean you don't get to have sex because you could do ... There's a book, I'm looking at it right now, Jillian Anderson put together, she's an actor out of the UK and she called out to women all over the world to send in their fantasies, their sexual fantasies. And she got thousands and thousands and thousands of letters, all anonymous. And there were different categories and she had to condense it down and the book is still hundreds and hundreds of pages thick. And it really runs the gamut of what people want. And so even if you do solo sex, there's a book full of fantasies that women are having that you get to play out in your mind if you want to.
(16:40)
So you don't get to not enjoy sex. You can use your imagination and do a lot of things by yourself and still learn more about your body and still physically be with yourself. And so I don't think there's any shame in that game because maybe some people might have some feelings about like, "I shouldn't have to do this alone." Look, I've had that too, where I'm like, "I want a good partner, a consistent good partner so I don't have to do this alone." But then again, that's perspective too. Yes and this is my current situation so I can make the best of it and really enjoy myself by myself and then feel ready and confident as I move into whatever kind of sexual encounters I want in the future. So I think being with yourself is a great thing. And then if you are going to do partner decide, do you want some casual fun and kind of go from there?
(17:34)
And then if you feel like, "Nope, this hurts my feelings if there's no emotional attachment." Cool, casual sex, off the table. So now what? We're going to actively date.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I think isn't it? Oh no. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I was just going to say, did you know that there's cuddy buddies that male and female, you can hire someone to literally just cuddle with you. It's true. I met a woman at a retreat back last year who for a long time, she no longer does that and she was like a cuddle expert for years. So yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I had a, I don't know what we were. We started as friends with benefits and then we started dating, whatever the title was. But
Speaker 2 (18:15):
There
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Was a period of time where he's like, "I could be an expert cuddler." And I agree he could. And that was how I found out that is actually a job that somebody can have.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yes, yes. I actually thought about that years ago when I was dancing because I thought, as a dancer, a lot of men come in and they're lonely and they just want to sit with a pretty girl who's going to listen to them talk or maybe just hold them and tell them they're special. And I thought, why isn't there anything like that for women, like a safe space to go and have super hot men let you sit on their lap or go to a VIP room and snuggle on a couch and just spend time. There's not really that outlet for women. I was like, "That's kind of unfair." But then I found out that there's cuddlers.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So okay, where I was going to go with this before we got into the cuddling profession was it's one of the great complex complexities of life of we say I shouldn't have to figure out how my body works. My partner should just know, but no my dear. It starts with you. You got to figure out what turns you on, what kind of touch do you like? All of it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Oh yes. I am absolutely an advocate for masturbation all day. I think an orgasm a day keeps the doctor away even better. Well, the beautiful thing is women are multiorgasmic, which I think is magical. Women are already magical. We create life, whether we choose to or not, actually do that. We do have the capability and we're magical. We're multi-orgasmic. Men are not. And so I think we're magical. I think I was in my maybe 14, 15 when I discovered masturbation and I was like, wow, this is amazing. And even then, you still don't know a whole lot because even if you know how to please yourself, you don't necessarily know how to ... So I have to tell you, I had sex with many men before I ever orgasmed in a partnered sex situation because when you're young, you don't really know what to say and you're not even sure.
(20:26)
And you're like, I mean, I know this isn't working, but I'm not sure what does. I mean, so you might know how to do it with yourself. And yeah, I think I'm a huge, like I said, masturbation advocate. I think working out, it's just good for your health. It's good for your hormones, it's good for your attitude, it's good for your joints. If you listen to eat, pray, love. Remember when- Oh my
Speaker 1 (20:47):
God, yes.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yes. And she's like, "Honey, you need to have sex. Your joints are really ... " They're
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Dry. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
She said her
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Joints were dry.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Girl, lubricate all the areas. So I'm a big fan of solo sex and I think that I have one of my favorite stories of all time, she was probably in her early to mid 20s and I was working with a young lady who was in a longtime relationship with the guy and I am obviously going to ask about sex. I was like, "So how's this sex?" And she's like, "What's all right?" I get on top and I kind of ride them out and then that's that. And I was like, "Okay, but are you orgasming?" And she's like, "Well, I think so. " And I was like, "You think so or you know so? " So I described an orgasm to her and she's like, "Oh no, I definitely don't have that. " And I was like, "Do you masturbate?" And she was like, "No." And I was like, there we start there.
(21:38)
And I had to say, and long story short, she ended up coming back at some point and saying, "Morgan, I did it. Oh my God." And she's like, "It was awesome. I didn't even know my body could do that. I felt so empowered and powerful and confident." She ended up dumping that guy now she's with a great guy. But anyway, who hopefully keeps her very sexually pleased. It really starts with you. And even recently I read ... Well, I listen to audiobook, but I listened to She Comes First.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Such a
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Good book. Yes. And it's intended for men to listen to for instruction and how to please a woman. And as a woman who masturbates on the regular and has had a lot of sex and had to instruct men on manual sex, oral sex, penetrative sex, you got to ... I mean, women's bodies work completely different. And men oftentimes watch porn and think that's what it is. And it's like, nope. So even reading that book, I was like, huh, I've got all the parts and I know a lot about my body and I still learn some things. So I would encourage women to read. I think reading, and I'm talking like technical books like She Comes First, also books like sex talk, Dirty Talk. You can find books or fictional. Oh my goodness. I was reading a book, it was a trilogy and the writing was okay because hello.
(22:59)
And I will say the language, it helped me. And I was texting with a guy, this was like a year or so ago, and he was like, "You could write dirty novels." And I was like, no, I'm replaying what we did together and thinking about it. And I'm saying in the words in a way that someone writing a book would say it. I can't write an entire book. I can describe how we spent our last time together in a way that's quite sexy. So I think that the more you read and the more you know about your body, but also just all that's available when it comes to sexuality. I mean, it's words, sight, sound, smells, touch. There's just so much to it. And I think reading and practicing on yourself helps a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Speaking of Samantha Jones, did you know Kim Cottrell has a sex book?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
She does.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
It's pretty good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I did not know that and I'm going to have to get it immediately. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
So you told me you really work within a three-step framework of clean up your self-talk, audit what you're consuming and moving your body in a way that feels powerful.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
So can we break that down of what this might look like for whether it's reclaiming your sex life when you're single or getting back in touch with your solo pleasure? So when you're starting with cleaning up your self-talk, where might somebody get stuck in negative self-talk around this?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Most women probably are very good at speaking ill of themselves, right? I mean, we are- Yeah, so let's
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Pull it out of the basement and into the light.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yes. And we are worse critics and it makes me so sad. I chatted with one gal and she's like, "I'm really struggling perimenopause. Where did this belly all of a sudden come from?" She's like, "I'm a powerful attorney. I can run a team and stand in a boardroom and be the boss and feel super badass." I see myself naked and I'm like, "You're disgusting. How does your husband even find you attractive?" And I'm like, "You say that to yourself?" I'm like, "What?" So women can be really mean to themselves, things they would never say to their best friend or their sister. And there's a couple ways. For me, it was finding the book, You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hay. And I was very young back then, maybe 19, 20, and I had a lot of negative self dialogue, and then I had to learn how to reprogram that with positive things.
(25:31)
And now I never ever ... There might be moments where you're like, "I didn't know that cellulite was there." So now it's more observation than critique of my body as it's changing or what changes week to week because of my cycle or my age, but my body has changed. So for me, I think it's just self-talk in general. And then also Byron Katie's the work, I love that because anytime you catch yourself with a thought, it takes practice. I mean, you have to do it every single time, and then it will get automatic and then the negative thoughts won't even be there and you won't have any kind of attachment to them and it takes work. So catching the thought and going, "Is this true? Is it absolutely true?" If you go, "Can you give me an example of somebody that's like desirable because ... " Is it body confidence or is it just, "I'm not desirable because I'm single?" Or what do you think-
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, I'm not desirable because I'm single. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
"I'm not desirable because I'm single." Is that true? "Yeah, it's true. Nobody desires me. " "Do you know that to be absolutely true that you are undesirable?" And I was like, "No." And the third question is, "Okay, and how do you feel? What is your reaction? What's happening for you when you believe this thought?" "Well, I feel even worse about myself and I don't want to go out and then I think I'm not worth it or I'm not worthy or I'm not enough or I'm going to be single forever. Okay. And who would you be if you let go of this thought? What would that feel like if you could go, well, wow, that would feel really freeing and I wouldn't have this thing hanging over. "So they could talk about what it would feel like to let go and then the last step in the work is to turn it around.
(27:26)
I am sexy. I am powerful. I am confident and I am desirable. So it's turning it around. And even though it kind of goes back to, like I said, what I did when I did my work in Louise Hayes' book, You Can Heal Your Life, it's rewiring your thoughts because we are programmed to think negative. We are rewired to protect ourselves, to look for the bad stuff even in ourself. And it's so automatic that yes, it does take practice to reset and it isn't impossible. I mean, I have to tell you, when I was struggling with my body image stuff and my eating disorder stuff, there were days I didn't want to wake up in the morning. I just thought, I don't want to do this anymore. It's exhausting.
(28:17)
I just don't want to be in my body and in my brain anymore because I think all these be it bad thoughts and I make bad choices. And it took practice to rewire that. And I mean, years, don't get me wrong, it was steps and it was kind of steps that we're going to go through with some of these different things. It was practicing it every day because my automatic is to be critical or the automatic is to do what's easy. And so it was effort to rewire all the bad stuff that I had been programmed in my own self.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah. Yeah. And then, okay, let's move into audit. What you're consuming. So what does that look like?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
People like to blame social media, all the algorithms and the this is the ... Girl, I'm 45. We didn't grow up with the internet and I lived in a small town in Wisconsin, so I didn't have a lot of influence outside of my family and my little school that I went to. I wasn't from a big community, so it wasn't like I had all these fancy influences. And yes, now it's exacerbated because there's a lot more access. I still watched movies and saw Skinny Girls. I still learned what sexuality was from Dirty Dancing and Jessica Rabbit from Who Framed Roger Rabbit and 17 Magazine. I mean, I consumed 17 Magazine. There were pictures ... You remember back in the day you could put up those glowing dark
(29:46)
Stars? Yeah, right? And I used that sticky stuff to put up pictures from 17 magazines. So there were girls, skinny, beautiful women all over, like I decorated the walls in our playroom. My brother and I were allowed to ... Our bedroom So we're for sleeping. And then we had a playroom where we had music and you get older, you have posters and all the things. So I was consuming 17 magazine. That was the media I was consuming. Well, did it make me feel good? Probably not. And when I went away to college, I didn't have those kind of magazines anymore. And I know that's a long time ago, so it might not be relatable to some women. And it's the same thing, except you have a choice. When I was a kid, you just kind of consume things because that's what's there and you think that's what's cool.