What happens when you stop chasing love and start focusing on becoming the person you want to be? In this episode, Sarah talks with John Petrocelli about his experience going through divorce, stepping away from dating apps, and ultimately finding love again in an unexpected way. John shares how a near-death experience changed his perspective on what really matters, how divorce forced him to rethink his approach to relationships, and why he eventually decided to create a dating podcast that feels more human than a dating app. They also talk about the loneliness of modern dating, the importance of letting people reveal who they really are, and why following curiosity and connection can lead to better relationships. Most importantly, this conversation offers hope that starting over after divorce doesn't mean going backward—it can be the beginning of something entirely new.
Connect with John at https://www.donewithdating.co/
Share with Sarah your thoughts on Instagram @sarahcurnoles
Find her on https://www.cassandrarosa.com/
Follow her on instagram @Cassandrarosa
Sarah Curnoles: Alright, my friends, welcome back to another episode of
Sarah Curnoles: breakup pep talks, and I have a wonderful guest here today who has his own podcast that I think the title will probably resonate with a lot of people that I talk to. So, I'm so happy to welcome John Petrozzelli. Ugh, I got it right the first time before we started recording. John Petrozzelli.
Sarah Curnoles: And his podcast is called Done With Dating.
John Petrozzelli: That's true.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah, so I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you for joining me today, John.
John Petrozzelli: Absolutely, thanks for having me on, Sarah.
Sarah Curnoles: Yes!
John Petrozzelli: I'm excited about this, too.
Sarah Curnoles: Oh, good, I'm so glad. And we're doing, we're doing a podcast swap, so you'll get to hear me… I'll get to share with your people as well.
John Petrozzelli: That's right.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah. So, we were introduced by a mutual friend, but what I really love about your story is that you've gone through a divorce, and I really wanted to share the male perspective, because I don't bring that a lot onto this platform, this podcast.
Sarah Curnoles: But you also took that, and you've really turned it into…
Sarah Curnoles: dare I say, like, a movement, right? Like, you're really putting out some good stuff there in the world to try to make this better for people, and I really appreciate what you're doing.
John Petrozzelli: Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to… trying to make things,
John Petrozzelli: Trying to make my dent in the world in a positive way for people, and trying to help people who are just going through struggles, not knowing if there's going to be a bright horizon over the corner.
John Petrozzelli: By the way, do you hear my dog? My dog is, like…
Sarah Curnoles: Not at all.
John Petrozzelli: Okay, alright, good.
Sarah Curnoles: And we're all human, right? Like, I think I've had a dog barking in the back of a recording myself, so…
John Petrozzelli: He literally waits for me to start recording, and then starts growling and barking, trying to kill something outside.
Sarah Curnoles: Aww, okay.
John Petrozzelli: Can I pause and just let her out? Do you mind?
Sarah Curnoles: Can we… yeah, yeah.
Sarah Curnoles: Okay, all right, everybody, so, we had the dog, but I really am so interested about your story and what… what got you… what got you here? What got you doing, like, this work to make a positive dent in the world? So where did… tell me where it started.
John Petrozzelli: Sure. It started… I'm actually in a relationship now.
Sarah Curnoles: Sure.
John Petrozzelli: And… and part of that was…
John Petrozzelli: Because I've done a lot of work on myself over the course of… 6 years, almost 7 years.
John Petrozzelli: Actually, more than 7 years, so I…
John Petrozzelli: I found this really incredible person as a result of
John Petrozzelli: an ability to stop overthinking about relationships, and…
John Petrozzelli: this person was also going through the same thing. We were on two different paths. We actually had some overlap in life in different locations, in Connecticut or Massachusetts, and luckily we never met each other, because we wouldn't have been ready for each other then.
John Petrozzelli: But…
John Petrozzelli: I… so, once I… once I met her, before I met her, I was done with dating. I was… I decided I'm done with the dating apps, I really just need to focus on being a father.
John Petrozzelli: being my best version of myself, put a lot of effort into self-improvement, I started learning a language, I started looking at other ways that I could improve professionally.
John Petrozzelli: I've, I've thought about…
John Petrozzelli: building out a podcast, but I didn't want to do anything that was cybersecurity related. That's my day job. It's very stressful, there's a, you know, it's non-stop.
John Petrozzelli: discussions about breaches and all these types of issues. So I was like, I want to do something fun. And there's so many other types of podcasts out there that I was like, well, let me… maybe let's look at this dating podcast. But the other side of this was.
John Petrozzelli: that I really felt isolated when I was on dating apps, and I wanted to create something that was more of an experience, and I had a guest on the other day that I really appreciated. He said, this is, like, high vibration.
John Petrozzelli: And my goal with this is to try to create an opportunity for someone to highlight themselves completely different than they would be able to highlight themselves in a dating app.
John Petrozzelli: in almost a short-form interview. And so, I bring on matchmaking guests, and I bring on experts, but in the matchmaking episodes, the guests is literally someone looking for a match.
John Petrozzelli: And it doesn't matter who they are, doesn't matter what their background is, I'm helping to try to help them find their connection, and give back to the universe, like, because the universe and God helped me find this person that I'm very happy with.
Sarah Curnoles: I mean, this is just, like, so incredible. Like, I just have all the questions, which is why I wanted to have this conversation, because…
Sarah Curnoles: It's an incredible idea, I can't believe I don't know millions of people that are doing podcasts like this, where you combine experts and matchmaking episodes, right? There are expert interviews, and then you also have these interviews where you see if two people are a fit for each other, right? Or in general, right? You're kind of, like, putting them out there.
John Petrozzelli: Yeah, so I highlight one person. I'm actually ideating the idea of doing podcasts in person at restaurants or bars in Massachusetts, which is where I'm living right now.
John Petrozzelli: And so, I would love to be able to create more of a real human interaction environment where someone's a guest, and then other people can ask them questions live.
John Petrozzelli: Or people who have heard a lot about them can maybe make an introduction to them outside, now that they've heard about this incredible person.
John Petrozzelli: And what I've seen with the matchmaking episodes is that
John Petrozzelli: I was prior FBI. I did a lot of interviews. My goal was always to try to pull as much information out of someone as I could in a short period of time by building a rapport quickly, and then trying to debrief them.
John Petrozzelli: When I was an intelligence officer in the Air Force, I debriefed pilots who did not want to talk to me. They just landed from a long mission, and they just wanted to go home. So my job was to pull information from these people who were kicking and screaming to come into my debriefing.
John Petrozzelli: So…
John Petrozzelli: Over time, I built a rapport with them, but my… what I've done with this is try to build that same rapport with each guest that comes on.
John Petrozzelli: and then ask follow-up questions to maybe a comment they make, or an activity they like, because what I've seen is it brings out the passion in them. So, I talked about, in some cases, in one case, there was a person who came on.
John Petrozzelli: And she was talking about crafting. And I was like, oh, well, let's talk through that. Like, have you ever done crafting on a date? She's like, no, that's a great idea. I should do crafting on a date with someone. And she started to get really excited about things that she's created in the past. I just had a guest on talking about
John Petrozzelli: biking, and he's an avid cyclist, and he was talking about the different… I asked him to tell me about his coolest race that he was on, and so he told me that.
John Petrozzelli: And then I had another person on who, is a gay man who…
John Petrozzelli: His… his way of decompressing is watching a show called Baddies, which I had never heard of.
Sarah Curnoles: I've never heard of it either.
John Petrozzelli: Yeah, it's on, like, a separate cable channel and a streaming channel or something, and then he also was a big fan of RuPaul's Drag Race, so he watches that regularly. So, yeah, I get to hear a lot of things about these matchmaking guests, and it's really fun to be able to open up
John Petrozzelli: the onion that is their personality, especially where they might not be willing to do that on a dating app, because they're like, I… I don't want to put myself out there to an anonymous face, and then now they're doing it on this podcast, but… but there's more of an altruistic
John Petrozzelli: feature about it, and what I've told guests is they're welcome to take the podcast episode and dump it into a dating profile if they're using a dating app, because now someone actually can listen to them and who they are for, you know, 15 to 20 to sometimes 30 minutes.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah, I just think it's so brilliant, because also, I think all of us that have ever been on a dating app have that experience of how hard it is to put yourself into words in a way that somebody who doesn't hear your voice, who doesn't hear your inflection, of a way, like, they'll understand who you are.
Sarah Curnoles: And the interview, and the way that you're describing the way that you do it, of, like, following their excitement, and following their passion, and letting that come out, that's… that's almost what you hope a good date does, is, like.
John Petrozzelli: Right.
Sarah Curnoles: That they're asking those questions and eliciting that from you.
John Petrozzelli: Yes.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah.
John Petrozzelli: Yeah, it's almost like just cultivating that, the positive energy and the higher vibration of the individuals who come on. And you can see in every person that I've had on, there's incredible hope
John Petrozzelli: when they come on and they're talking about themselves and what they hope. So, for me, what I need to do is grow my audience so that I have people listening and be like.
John Petrozzelli: oh my god, I love this guy, or this girl, you know, or maybe they're not right for me, but this would be great for my friend.
Sarah Curnoles: Totally.
John Petrozzelli: And that kind of thing. So, I'm growing it out. I've had some people from across the United States
John Petrozzelli: I had one guest from Washington, D.C, one guest from Kansas City.
John Petrozzelli: Missouri, I think it was. And so…
John Petrozzelli: So, I'm trying to create this as… a… non-limited…
John Petrozzelli: you know, to geography type of dating experience, where someone can look for love in their area, regardless of where they are. So they come on as a guest, and they're like, okay, you know, now here I am, you know, New York, or here I am.
Sarah Curnoles: Blessed.
John Petrozzelli: Los Angeles, or… He's from, you know, somewhere in… Midwest.
Sarah Curnoles: Yes, exactly. And even in this age where remote jobs are becoming more and more common, like, maybe there's the possibility of two people long-distance dating and moving, and who knows? Who knows? Have you had any success stories yet?
John Petrozzelli: Not yet, so I, I, again, I'm about 4 months into this now, and…
Sarah Curnoles: new, which is great.
John Petrozzelli: I'm growing. Yeah, I'm growing. So, I'm getting more traction of listeners.
John Petrozzelli: But what I typically try to do is send people to my website, and they would apply to date the guests. So…
John Petrozzelli: In a way of trying to help the guests on.
John Petrozzelli: minus doing some kind of background check or something, I want people to go to the website. So typically what I don't do is share their Instagram handles, or dating profile names, or things like that.
John Petrozzelli: Because I don't want… Anybody to just reach out to them.
John Petrozzelli: Randomly, and, you know, potentially put
John Petrozzelli: someone I had on as a guest in danger, or something like that. So, what I ask people to do is go to the website and apply to date them, and upload a couple of pictures of themselves, and then a video to explain what they liked about this person, what they're interested in about this person, and what resonated with them.
John Petrozzelli: And then also to explain a little bit about themselves. So they're now providing, like, a really short form, maybe, like, 3 or 4 minute
John Petrozzelli: video to this person, and then I'll then take that and forward it to the guest. So… This sounds like it's.
Sarah Curnoles: What's your, like, cybersecurity, FBI background coming out, like, I think that's amazing that you're thinking that through of safety and all of that as well, because…
John Petrozzelli: S.
Sarah Curnoles: You know, you're right, like, we live in a nature where we have to think about that.
John Petrozzelli: Yeah, and I think about my kids. Luckily, none of them are…
John Petrozzelli: Our dating right now, and
John Petrozzelli: you know, my… I have two boys and a girl, and I have a speech for…
John Petrozzelli: my daughter's first boyfriend, and if my son's gay, I have a speech for his first boyfriend, you know?
Sarah Curnoles: Right.
John Petrozzelli: Because it's like, you know, I will be equal opportunity for any guy that tries to come to date any child of mine, and
John Petrozzelli: Yeah, it's a dangerous environment out there, and with the propagation of the internet, people can stalk other people and things like that, so I'm just trying to do what I can to try to
John Petrozzelli: at least create some level of a level playing field, where someone has to check a box that says, I am not a psycho.
John Petrozzelli: Obviously, they could be lying, but they're doing the same thing that they'd be doing on a match or another dating app, where they at least have to check a box with the terms of use that says, this is what I… this is who I am. Right. And at least, like, they're representing themselves in a certain way, as opposed to.
John Petrozzelli: giving out an Instagram handle, and then that person just gets… slides into their DMs.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah.
Sarah Curnoles: Absolutely.
Sarah Curnoles: Amazing. Is there anything… because I definitely want people to listen, and I also want to talk about your story a little bit, but before I do that pivot, is there anything else you want people to know to entice them to come listen to your podcast?
John Petrozzelli: So, the experts that I have on… so, let me start with just saying my three pillars. Matchmaking is my first pillar.
John Petrozzelli: Personal improvement.
John Petrozzelli: Whether it's someone who is in a relationship and quite content, whether it's someone who is in between relationships, or whether it's someone like me who has taken a break from dating and was like, I'm done, I just want to focus on self-improvement, I don't want to deal with the carousel of the dating environment.
John Petrozzelli: That's my second pillar, is that self-improvement.
John Petrozzelli: And…
John Petrozzelli: we can talk about why, to me, podcasts are so important to do that, when we talk about my history, as far as my story, and how I came to asking for a divorce, and things like that. And my third pillar is entertainment, because I have, including my dentist, many people who are just
John Petrozzelli: they like to live vicariously in the dating space, and so they'll either listen to the matchmaking episodes, or they'll listen to the guests, and they'll be like, oh, that was really great, like, that was a great interaction you had, and things like that, so…
John Petrozzelli: So those are my three pillars, and so what I would say is, going back to your question.
John Petrozzelli: the experts that come on, I'm trying to create and curate a list of experts that come on to help people in a variety of different situations. And so, some people, come on to talk about
John Petrozzelli: attachments. You know, some people are matchmakers. Some people… I have a lot of people who come on who've talked about their events that they're creating, and a lot of those happen to be in Massachusetts. I'm looking for
John Petrozzelli: more of those type of localized events in other parts of the country, because I'd like to highlight those.
John Petrozzelli: These are all events where people are using human engagement versus the dating apps, and so I've had 4 or 5 episodes of people doing these types of things in Massachusetts, which is great, because if people listen, they're like, oh my gosh, like, let me go do that, you know? There's one person who met every…
John Petrozzelli: Friday night. It was called Walking, Talking Men, and they literally
John Petrozzelli: That's all they do. They're men, they get grouped up together, and they walk and talk and bond. So it's, like, not just dating, it's about
John Petrozzelli: humanity. It's about maybe finding someone that you connect with, that you can talk to, or share experiences with. So, the experts are really important, as well as the matchmaking elements of this, because what I'm trying to do is give someone something to listen to, where they can pick and choose
John Petrozzelli: what do I, you know, what do I want to listen to today? And, oh, this could actually help me in my life.
Sarah Curnoles: That's amazing. I will definitely connect you. I know somebody in Maryland that's doing events, and she does, Maryland and DC, so, yeah.
Sarah Curnoles: So she… I think she'd be a great fit for you, and she's very sassy with her dating advice, so it's a lot of fun to have conversations with her. Very good. But I love that you want to expand this, and you have a really big vision, and I love that.
John Petrozzelli: Yes, yeah, and I… my goal is not to make money from this. Right now, I will use it as a tax write-off, like, losing money, but my… my goal is to really do… do this altruistically. So, when I do events, I'm not going to charge for them.
John Petrozzelli: When I, you know, maybe at some point I might get sponsors, but, like, that's… that's a long-term thing. Really, for me, this is about…
John Petrozzelli: not my day job, and it's about just doing something as a fun hobby, because my kids are getting older, they need me less, and so I don't wanna… I wanna have something to fill my life that is fulfilling.
John Petrozzelli: And I don't want to keep going to professional development training nonstop, so this is my professional development. Conducting interviews, reaching out to people, you know, having these types of conversations, improving my speech, kind of to minimize, you know, how much I say certain
John Petrozzelli: Things, like ahs and ums, so…
John Petrozzelli: Professional development, to me is really important, but using the podcast as a way of improving myself, as well as helping listeners to maybe improve, is really important to me.
Sarah Curnoles: That is so smart, and you're absolutely right. There are so many ways that we can keep growing, we can keep improving ourselves, and…
Sarah Curnoles: It really, you just get to follow… you get to follow your heart.
John Petrozzelli: Great.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah.
John Petrozzelli: Right, and I've learned so much from people on here, it's been awesome.
Sarah Curnoles: That is awesome. And that's why I like having these conversations, too, of… I started doing just solo episodes, and by the time I got to the point where I felt comfortable enough to start bringing on guests, it lets me really be present, and I get to really learn a lot from the people I talk to.
Sarah Curnoles: So, yeah.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah. Well, if it's okay with you, I'd love… I'd love to share your story of what it was like going through a divorce as a man, and dating after the divorce. I… I don't get the male perspective on here a lot, and I… I'd love to hear it, so would you mind walking us through from the beginning?
John Petrozzelli: Absolutely. Do you mind if I just pause and let my dog back in?
Sarah Curnoles: Sure.
John Petrozzelli: She's barking outside now to come in, so, okay, thanks.
John Petrozzelli: So, I want to start with… the…
John Petrozzelli: information that I… I actually asked for the divorce, and… I…
John Petrozzelli: I'd done a lot of research prior to asking for the divorce, and I also realized that I was in the minority, because most men
John Petrozzelli: it's less… around 20% or less of men ask for the divorce. Most of the time.
John Petrozzelli: It's… it's levied on them, and they're… a lot of them are taken by surprise, have no idea it was coming, they were happy.
John Petrozzelli: In my case, I asked for it, but…
John Petrozzelli: In my situation, I had,
John Petrozzelli: I had been unhappy for a while.
John Petrozzelli: And… I had a great… wife. She was a great wife.
John Petrozzelli: We got along very well, we didn't argue at all.
John Petrozzelli: And we can go a little bit deeper into this if you want with some follow-ups, but I…
John Petrozzelli: I almost died in 2000 in a scuba diving accident, and
John Petrozzelli: After that, things didn't matter to me anymore, in terms of…
John Petrozzelli: Things that were little, I just didn't care about. Things like, what color do I want the walls painted? What color do I want the floors? You know, those types of things didn't matter to me anymore in life, and I didn't realize that
John Petrozzelli: It had made this really big shift on me.
John Petrozzelli: And I actually forgot about the incident for… 6 or 7 years.
John Petrozzelli: And eventually, when I was trying to help someone else through trauma, it… I remembered the story, and…
John Petrozzelli: So, subconsciously, it had completely changed my life, because I became very indifferent to 95% of things. I would typically not care what I ate for dinner, I wouldn't care what I, you know, ordered out from somewhere.
John Petrozzelli: And it wasn't that I was lazy or that I didn't put effort into things. I still put a lot of effort into stuff, but it was mostly around work and relationships and things like that, and the…
John Petrozzelli: the things that I considered material just didn't matter to me.
John Petrozzelli: family was really important, my career was very important, but the other stuff just wasn't important. And what I've learned through a lot, for through years of therapy, was that I actually created
John Petrozzelli: a problem for myself by being so indifferent. Because, not just with my wife, but in a subsequent relationship.
John Petrozzelli: When somebody asks you, What do you want for dinner tonight? And your answer.
John Petrozzelli: 99 times out of 100 is, I don't care.
John Petrozzelli: And they ask you, what color walls do you want for this living room? And you're like, I don't care.
John Petrozzelli: When you continue to say that, not in a malicious way, but just in a more, like, whatever you want.
John Petrozzelli: that erodes…
John Petrozzelli: Your ability to be part of a conversation, and it actually eroded my ability to take accountability for actions, and take accountability for
John Petrozzelli: A decision that a couple would make.
John Petrozzelli: And so, I've learned that through years of therapy, through years of… of discussions like this, that for me, part of my failures in the marriage were the failures to take accountability through some of these small actions, and I just…
John Petrozzelli: I never knew that that was such a damaging thing, but… In my situation.
John Petrozzelli: multiple relationships I was in, it would seem like
John Petrozzelli: that person was controlling me, but in reality, I had given up control in a relationship, so it wasn't 50-50. It may have been 50-50 in our performance of what we were doing and tasks and things like that, but it wasn't in terms of decision-making. And that was… a lot of it was my fault.
John Petrozzelli: And so… I had gotten to the point where I was very…
John Petrozzelli: kind of stuck in a situation that I was… it looked very good on paper.
John Petrozzelli: Very good Facebook family, I would call it.
John Petrozzelli: But I was miserable, and…
John Petrozzelli: part of it was because I had a really good career, I was a Type A at work, I joked that I was a Type B at home.
John Petrozzelli: And… I had someone who was… she was very supportive of my career.
John Petrozzelli: more so than I think most people would be.
John Petrozzelli: But, when we were home together, our… something else I learned was that our
John Petrozzelli: Our love languages were different. I never heard of what a love language was until I started going through therapy for divorce.
John Petrozzelli: But I… but that… that helped me to realize, like, not only was I giving up, kind of, control in some of these relationships, but my love language was different than my wife's. And so, for me, I would do acts of service, and that was responding to her love language.
John Petrozzelli: she did not touch me ever, and that was neglecting my love language. So, like, physical touch was really… still is. It was really critically important to me.
John Petrozzelli: And watching, you know.
John Petrozzelli: somebody, whether it be a girlfriend or watching a wife, watching someone touch other people in a very loving way and not do it to you is not only, like, feels neglected, you feel neglected, but I also felt, like, insulted, because I was like, what's wrong with me? You know, and so…
John Petrozzelli: There were a whole variety of things that kind of… kind of came together.
John Petrozzelli: And I have a lot of people
John Petrozzelli: In my life, or anecdotally, that… Hello.
John Petrozzelli: Shush.
John Petrozzelli: Sorry. A lot of people… Anecdotally, that…
John Petrozzelli: have always said, well, we'll wait till… we'll wait till the kids go to… go to college before we ask for the divorce. And…
John Petrozzelli: a podcast that I listened to had said that
John Petrozzelli: Kids at an earlier age are way more malleable And they can handle divorce.
John Petrozzelli: And we don't give them enough credit for that. And so, at the time of my divorce, when I asked for it, my kids were 10,
John Petrozzelli: 10, 7… Or 10-8 and, like, 6, or 5. And so, at that point, They were malleable enough
John Petrozzelli: we had a relationship with them, a bond with them, that would pass the test of, you know, eventually, we hoped at that time it has turned out to pass the test of going through the divorce and that stuff.
John Petrozzelli: when I was at the FBI,
John Petrozzelli: I had a lot of people who were going through divorce, and I was the head of security for three and a half years there.
John Petrozzelli: So I… I literally went through a lot of these situations with people, and…
John Petrozzelli: they were going through crisis, not just for themselves and their wife or their husband or their spouse, but their kids. Like, some of the kids were in high school and college, and I was watching what was happening.
John Petrozzelli: As a witness, and just seeing, like, oh my gosh, like, this kid's… this guy's kid is suicidal.
John Petrozzelli: Because…
John Petrozzelli: they're not… they feel like the parents betrayed them by hiding this for years and things like that, and so I got… I was like… that helped me kind of, like, push over the cover to say, okay, you know what?
John Petrozzelli: We need to do this now. Like, I need to do this now. I can't wait.
John Petrozzelli: 7 or 8 more years.
John Petrozzelli: And, I did try therapy. We, you know, we didn't…
John Petrozzelli: the… both people have to want to go to therapy. So, if only one person wants to go.
John Petrozzelli: it doesn't happen. And so, I did want to go to therapy, it just didn't occur.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah.
John Petrozzelli: Until after the divorce process started. Yeah.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah What,
Sarah Curnoles: What do you think was the hardest part after the divorce?
John Petrozzelli: I think… I was really lucky to have somebody who co-parented so well with me.
John Petrozzelli: I think what a lot of people have is the struggle of co-parenting post-divorce, and the personal feelings can get in the way of things. You know.
John Petrozzelli: My wife at the time probably hated me.
John Petrozzelli: And she never let that get in the way of the importance of loving the kids and being, like, keeping me as part of the…
John Petrozzelli: life with the kids, you know? And so,
John Petrozzelli: It… we both… we both tried to make the kids a priority for…
John Petrozzelli: The… the initial year of the…
John Petrozzelli: the divorce, you know, that was really a big deal. I was sleeping in their house. I had moved out.
John Petrozzelli: I had moved to an apartment, and
John Petrozzelli: I had custody of the kids, Tuesdays and Thursdays, so I was sleeping on a…
John Petrozzelli: mattress on their floor in each kid's room. I would rotate the mattress through the house every, every week, you know, on the weekends. And I was still coaching a ton of sports, I was still very involved in their life, but again.
John Petrozzelli: The hard part of that is,
John Petrozzelli: she had to live with me for that. You know, she had to deal with that. So I would say a big part of it is.
John Petrozzelli: It must have been extremely hard for her to deal with that.
John Petrozzelli: Because here's a person who said, you know, they don't want to live together anymore, and I'm still letting them in my house, and still letting them live kind of similar to how we were living before. But that was… that was really a difficult time, in terms of…
John Petrozzelli: that initial break-off, the initial split, telling the kids about it, explaining to them, you know, that we still love each other, we're still a family unit, and things like that, but things are changing a bit. That was really the worst… the worst part in that first, probably, year and a half.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah, I can only imagine… I can only imagine how much intention that took on both parts, for both of you, right? Of… it can't be easy, that situation, and you set your priorities, so that just required you all to… to step up in different ways.
John Petrozzelli: Yeah.
Sarah Curnoles: Did you struggle with… oh, sorry, go ahead.
John Petrozzelli: Yeah, no, go ahead.
Sarah Curnoles: Did you struggle with confidence or shame during all of that period, or any of that period?
John Petrozzelli: Oh, yeah, definitely. I had… So our friends, our circle of friends were all intertwined.
John Petrozzelli: So… My best friend, from when I was 3 was married to her best friend. And…
John Petrozzelli: we had other relationships with other friends tangentially around that group. So, I was getting the conversations from the men to be like, you can't do this. Like, I got no support.
John Petrozzelli: From the majority of my friends. I lost a lot of them.
John Petrozzelli: I have one… one… Really strong friend… two strong friends from that group, one of which wasn't…
John Petrozzelli: totally involved, because he wasn't part of, like, the family dynamic, he didn't have his own family, he wasn't part of that. The other one stuck with me the entire time, and we're still really close now, and…
John Petrozzelli: You know, despite the pressure of the group to kind of disassociate with me, he stuck with me the whole time, which was…
John Petrozzelli: I found to be really critical. But, you know, there was that pressure the entire time of, like, what are you doing? You can't do this. Like, this is not… this isn't right. You know, you're being selfish.
John Petrozzelli: And, I mean, to some extent, it was, to some extent, selfish, but… It was, like…
John Petrozzelli: I consider it, like, putting on your mask before you help someone else when you're on the plane.
John Petrozzelli: But I was not as good of a father as I am now, because I was so miserable that I was essentially killing the clock.
John Petrozzelli: At night. So my kids, I'd play with them, I'd coach their sports, I'd put them to bed, but I was just a shell of a person, and…
John Petrozzelli: I was oftentimes stuck in my iPad or something like that, and so I had this guilt
John Petrozzelli: after, to go back to your question, I had the guilt of, God, I could have been so much of a better dad
John Petrozzelli: When I was with them, and I was wasting that time just killing the clock, essentially, until they went to bed, because I was so sad, I just wanted to be alone.
John Petrozzelli: You know, and,
Sarah Curnoles: Sorry, sorry, just double checking. Like, you were killing the clock while, like, while you were going through the divorce.
John Petrozzelli: Because you were sad. While you were married. Okay, just wanted to clarify.
Sarah Curnoles: Okay.
John Petrozzelli: Yeah, while I was married, basically, I would work from
John Petrozzelli: like, 5.45 till about 6 at night, 6… 6.30, I get home, you know, pick up the kids,
John Petrozzelli: Help with dinner, or make the dinner, or pick up dinner.
John Petrozzelli: Go to some kids' sports.
John Petrozzelli: depending on the time of year, sometimes I coached up to 5 sports every quarter.
John Petrozzelli: And then
John Petrozzelli: help the kids go to bed, you know, give them baths, put them to bed, read them books, whatever, whatever the case may be. And then about 9 o'clock.
John Petrozzelli: My wife went to bed, too. So I was alone from, like, 9 to midnight every night.
John Petrozzelli: And I slept about five and a half hours every night because I wanted that time. I wanted to stay up because I enjoyed being alone at that point. I would exercise at that point at night. A lot of times, for years, I was in my master's program, so I had to do homework.
John Petrozzelli: And, and then…
John Petrozzelli: during the FBI, I was involved in the marathon bombing, so I was doing… I, for 2 years, I was heavily involved in Jahar Tsarnaev's computers in doing the forensics, so I did that at night, too. So I had this night time, and so by killing the clock, what I meant was…
John Petrozzelli: as I… as their marriage continued to, like, have these issues, I would just basically, like.
John Petrozzelli: really push towards, okay, at 9 o'clock, I'm free, I can do my own thing, play video games, or whatever the case may be.
Sarah Curnoles: I see. I understand now. Yeah, so you were carrying the guilt of
Sarah Curnoles: that time, I could have been a better dad, but I was suffering, and I wasn't putting my mask on first, and it let you… once you initiated the divorce, you're going through the process, even the pressure from the friends, you had this gut feeling of, like, I will be a better parent when I'm happier, when I'm taking care of myself. Yeah.
John Petrozzelli: I was so much of a better parent, because now I didn't have the kids… I didn't take the children for granted.
Sarah Curnoles: I didn't have access.
John Petrozzelli: to them 24-7, right? When you're… when you're in a married situation.
John Petrozzelli: it's your responsibility, you have access to them most of the time, you know, so I didn't anymore. So now, like, now my time with them is precious to me. I don't want to do anything else besides be with my kids when I have my kids, you know, and
John Petrozzelli: they're getting older, my oldest is 17, he doesn't want to be over as much anymore, and I totally get that. So, my time is bleeding and precious, and so I think the guilt that I carry still now is, like, I wish I had done a better job
John Petrozzelli: when I was, you know, in the marriage to be more of a present father, because I was very present
John Petrozzelli: Physically, I wasn't necessarily present mentally.
Sarah Curnoles: Do you think that there's…
Sarah Curnoles: this could go two ways. Of, do you think that there are parts about divorce
Sarah Curnoles: That aren't talked about for men.
Sarah Curnoles: Or is there something you wish you knew? Like, nobody told me it was gonna be like this.
John Petrozzelli: I… again, I think… From my perspective, it was… I was in the rarity.
John Petrozzelli: Of the men who asked for the divorce?
John Petrozzelli: So I think my experience was a little different from a lot of other guys who have it kind of thrown at them, because there's still heartache, there's still pain.
John Petrozzelli: But I also, to some extent, had some excitement, you know? I was excited about kind of freedom.
John Petrozzelli: And… Kind of the ability to… to redirect my life.
John Petrozzelli: And, if you don't mind indulging.
John Petrozzelli: me with one story, I… so…
John Petrozzelli: In 2007, I was working for the FBI. I got offered my dream job. So, we're in Boston. I got offered my dream job of working public corruption in Charleston, South Carolina, which I… which is where I used to live when I was in the military. And I was like, oh my god, this is paradise, like, I'd be making six figures in Charleston.
John Petrozzelli: In 2007, 2008 timeframe, like, this would be paradise for us.
John Petrozzelli: My wife was like, no.
John Petrozzelli: I'm not raising my kids in the South, like, are you kidding me? I'm not raising my kids, like, they're not gonna go to school in South Carolina.
John Petrozzelli: And I was like, we would make so much money, we could put them in private school, like, if you're worried about it, you know? But that was kind of the discussion we had, was we were focused on trying to have a family and things like that, so I ended up turning down my dream job in that spot.
John Petrozzelli: Fast forward to… 10 or 11 years later, 2018,
John Petrozzelli: In the fall, I went back for a reunion of my military friends, and I almost… I kind of looked back, and was like.
John Petrozzelli: this could have been my life. You know, we're… we're out having a good time. The next morning, we go out on a boat, which… it was just my friend's Saturday. Like, it was just her Saturday, where she's like, yeah, I have a boat club, I take the boat out. We're literally on the… on the…
John Petrozzelli: in the river, on the way to the ocean, we have a school of dolphins swimming next to us as we get into the ocean. I'm like, oh my god, this is what I could… this could have been my life, but it's not. And so, I would say that, like, I, for a period of time, that bitterness
John Petrozzelli: really, really started to gestate when I got back, so this was the fall of 2018. I asked for my divorce in January of 2019, so this was… now this was, like, just gestating within me, and I was really…
John Petrozzelli: Kind of seething in… in those emotions of, like, I really wish I could have…
John Petrozzelli: I really wish I could have made different choices, you know, in life, and…
John Petrozzelli: it's… it had nothing to do with just my wife, because my family lives here, too. I'm kind of stuck up here.
John Petrozzelli: with my parents, and things like that, and I've been since I left the military, so…
John Petrozzelli: Everybody knows I don't want to live, you know, here long-term. I'd love to be maybe a snowbird or something, but I'm here, and now with my children, going back to, like, the importance of being a dad and missing them, and now I probably will never leave this area if they're up here, because I'll always want to be close to them.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah, well, I get that. And I also think there's something in your story that
Sarah Curnoles: I don't know. I don't know if this will resonate, but I think there's something…
Sarah Curnoles: like, the vision, even if it's your future, of, like, I really want maybe that snowbird life. I, like, I want the version of me where I get to feel free, where I get to…
Sarah Curnoles: maybe the vacations are in Charleston or something, who knows? But, like, there are… there are elements there that you can kind of grab onto of, like, this is part of what I want for my life. And I think one of the things I talk about a lot getting through divorce or breakup
Sarah Curnoles: is to remember that you have dreams beyond just the relationship. You have visions for what you want
Sarah Curnoles: Your life to look like. And that can also be one of the things that pulls you out of the hard moments.
John Petrozzelli: Right, and that was… and you did a great job just redirecting me back into your… to your question.
John Petrozzelli: because I think part of it was, I was so excited now, because I just changed my direct… my trajectory of my life, right? Yeah. The divorce was very painful.
John Petrozzelli: I think there were times where I was trying to look ahead, like, look at the bright light far away, it was really far away, but look at that and try to project out, you know, be like, okay, this is good. One thing I would say, going back to a previous question you had, is that
John Petrozzelli: I wish I had known it was really not healthy for me to date
John Petrozzelli: while I was separated, I really.
Sarah Curnoles: I was gonna ask you about this, yeah.
John Petrozzelli: So, that was… I ended up getting into a 3-year relationship with someone.
John Petrozzelli: after I had separated, and we were together until about 2023, so…
John Petrozzelli: I separated in April of 2019,
John Petrozzelli: we had agreed we would be able to start dating in, like, September or so. Literally met this person at the end of September in 2019, and was with them for 3 years. And so that was…
John Petrozzelli: Not a good decision. It was not wise of me to do that.
Sarah Curnoles: why it wasn't wise for you, right? This isn't necessarily blanket advice, but why wasn't it wise for you?
John Petrozzelli: Yeah, in my case, I hadn't done the work, enough of the work. So, started therapy in January of 2019, so I'm only about 9 months into it.
John Petrozzelli: not really…
John Petrozzelli: And then still in the chaos, you know, I'm still working full-time for the FBI. Still, now… now trying to help manage two households, to some extent, and then dealing with kids who are extremely busy, still young kids, lots of busy stuff, sports and everything like that.
John Petrozzelli: There wasn't a lot of time for me to really do the work.
John Petrozzelli: and reflect on, how did I get here?
John Petrozzelli: And so, things that I've talked to you about in this conversation are things I've learned after years.
John Petrozzelli: of reflection and years of discussions with people. It's not something I knew
John Petrozzelli: at 9 months away from the time that I asked for the divorce. So, for me, it…
John Petrozzelli: I ended up creating a very similar pattern with the 3-year relationship that I did with the marriage, because, again, there was that control element that I gave up control, not caring. I was proud of the fact that I really don't care about these things.
John Petrozzelli: But I really didn't learn enough about myself to know that, I'm not…
John Petrozzelli: I'm not aware enough, self-aware enough, that
John Petrozzelli: this is actually a bad thing. I'm not taking accountability for decisions.
John Petrozzelli: some… they might be minor decisions, but they're decisions, and so I've learned… That that's… that's really important.
Sarah Curnoles: Hmm, that is so… it's… it's really wise.
Sarah Curnoles: I think the question I was gonna ask you about dating…
Sarah Curnoles: it was something of, like, how did you know when you were ready to date? So I think that shifts now.
Sarah Curnoles: Because now you're looking back and you're like, oh, no, I definitely wasn't ready to date, I can see it in hindsight.
Sarah Curnoles: So maybe what… what was it that was different when you started this current relationship that you're in? What changed for you?
John Petrozzelli: I think it was the point where I had said.
John Petrozzelli: I'm done with dating, and I… I found this person accidentally, I wasn't…
John Petrozzelli: looking for the relationship anymore, and I… part of that was, I had said, like, I… I need to just be…
John Petrozzelli: I need to be most loyal to myself in terms of making sure that I'm the best possible version I can be of myself.
John Petrozzelli: And not really worry about how the world sees me, or how I…
John Petrozzelli: project myself to other people. I just am who I am.
Sarah Curnoles: I think that's huge, and that's enough to, like, I want to, like, zoom in on that, of…
John Petrozzelli: Sure.
Sarah Curnoles: I think, because it's hard to know in the moment of, am I the best version of myself? But what you're saying is, I became committed to myself, of, I'm gonna… I'm gonna do the work to make sure I'm the best version of me.
Sarah Curnoles: And I think that's… that's enough sometimes of, like, I'm committed to myself.
Sarah Curnoles: And also, I am letting go of what other people might be thinking about me, right? It's not important if they are like, what's wrong with him that he's still single? Like, why isn't he dating? You're gonna let go of whatever that might be, and just continue to honor the commitment to yourself.
Sarah Curnoles: Did I summarize that?
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah. Well…
John Petrozzelli: And I stopped performing, or in terms of… Into… I stopped… I, I recognized…
John Petrozzelli: that I had some tunnel vision in… in what I was looking for in relationships, and…
John Petrozzelli: that helped me because the person I'm with is a little different than the people that I was pursuing.
John Petrozzelli: So… The people that I was pursuing were, like, you know.
John Petrozzelli: extreme athletes at times, like CrossFitters, or bodybuilders, or fitness professionals, or, powerlifters, which I do like powerlifting, I was part of that community.
John Petrozzelli: But the person I'm with now is, like, she's a 500-hour yoga instructor, you know? Different world. Still a strong person, great athlete, but a different type of mentality. And…
John Petrozzelli: in my situation, a much healthier mentality for me, because she's done a lot of self-reflection, too. So, I was kind of in relationships where… and I think if I had kept kind of repeating
John Petrozzelli: you know, kind of looking at the physical attributes that I was looking for, I was missing the whole picture, and as a result.
John Petrozzelli: I ended up finding this person who, you know, may… may not be the right person long-term for me, but, like.
John Petrozzelli: is incredible for me right now, and so, I was lucky because now I realized, okay.
John Petrozzelli: What hap… what had to shift between
John Petrozzelli: the prior dates, I've been on a lot of dates and in relationships with people.
John Petrozzelli: But what shifted was my impression of what is good for me, what will help me be a better person?
John Petrozzelli: how can I be a better version of myself? And… Looking at, okay.
John Petrozzelli: By… by not limiting myself to… There's some archetype.
John Petrozzelli: then I can be more open, and kind of look to see
John Petrozzelli: What opportunities are out there, and had I not done that, I would have completely missed this person.
Sarah Curnoles: Hmm, really well said.
Sarah Curnoles: What…
Sarah Curnoles: this… this… I don't know, let's see where this question goes. What do you think is one thing…
Sarah Curnoles: That women consistently misunderstand about men when it comes to dating or relationships.
John Petrozzelli: I mean, I think men have…
John Petrozzelli: Emotions as well, you know, and
John Petrozzelli: They can bury them pretty deep.
John Petrozzelli: Men oftentimes are going through things, and they just don't… they internalize it. You know, they just…
John Petrozzelli: bury it down deep. It's a common theme I've heard with a lot of people, some guests on here, on the podcast, and then just a lot of men in life. And so, there is that performative… there's some level of,
John Petrozzelli: expectation of performance, or men to be a certain way. And… I think, in my case.
John Petrozzelli: I succumbed to a lot of social pressures, which led me to relationships that were not healthy for me.
John Petrozzelli: because I… I tried to succumb to…
John Petrozzelli: maybe who society thought I should be, and not who I was. So… You know, I think that…
John Petrozzelli: If… if women can let men Be who they are.
John Petrozzelli: They'll get a really good picture of who, when a man is actually who he is.
John Petrozzelli: he might not be a good person, I mean, I would just say that, but I mean, if a man can freely express who he is, and not be
John Petrozzelli: If you try not to change them and put them into some kind of…
John Petrozzelli: A mold that they don't fit into.
John Petrozzelli: Then, you know, you might find a very… happy… Pull…
John Petrozzelli: Guy, who can just be who he is.
Sarah Curnoles: Yeah, really well said. Okay, so before I get to our closing question, what, is there anything that you'd like to share with the group?
Sarah Curnoles: Or where people can follow you, where they can listen to the podcast, all of that.
John Petrozzelli: Sure. So, the podcast is called Done With Dating.
John Petrozzelli: It's available on all the different apps out there.
John Petrozzelli: My website is donewithdating.co.
John Petrozzelli: And… People are welcome to reach out to me if they want to come on as guests.
John Petrozzelli: they're welcome to reach out either through the website, where I have a guest form, or they can reach out via Instagram, or however they want to reach me.
John Petrozzelli: I,
John Petrozzelli: I really am trying to make this experience as positive as I can for people. And, so I would say if you are interested in that, either listen to other people's experiences, or come on yourself with me.
Sarah Curnoles: I love that. That's awesome. Great! Okay, and so the final question I'd like to ask is, if you could give listeners a pep talk, people going through a breakup or a divorce, what would you like them to know?
John Petrozzelli: Two things. One, be true to yourself.
John Petrozzelli: Just realize that you have your own bubble of things you can control.
John Petrozzelli: And you can make it malleable, sometimes you'll be able to control things more than others.
John Petrozzelli: But… Just try to… try to realize that, like, you…
John Petrozzelli: Have it in you to be able to get through just about anything.
John Petrozzelli: And… if… if…
John Petrozzelli: In my case, it's a god. Other cases, it might be the universe, it might be people, you know, who are atheists, kind of looking inwardly. You have the power in yourself.
John Petrozzelli: given to you, either by yourself, or some other being, or the universe, to make changes that you want to make. It's just a matter of…
John Petrozzelli: Putting the effort in.
John Petrozzelli: Every day.
John Petrozzelli: Showing your grit, and just showing up every day, and making that change, and pushing through the really bad days.
John Petrozzelli: Try to look at the long…
John Petrozzelli: Road, and… and realize that there is light at the end of that long road.
John Petrozzelli: If you're in a deep forest of darkness right now.
Sarah Curnoles: Oh, so good! So good!
Sarah Curnoles: Thank you so much for all of this, John. This was a really delightful conversation. I probably could have talked for another hour, but I really appreciate your time. Thank you.
John Petrozzelli: Thanks, Sarah.